Head of church
denies Resurrection of Christ!
Interview with Bill Phipps, current moderator of the
United church of Canada in October 1997 Click here to read interview
for yourself!
1965 premarital sex approved
1988 Practicing gays approved for ordination
1997 Church head denies Christ's resurrection (THIS
MAKES THIS ORGANISATION ANTI-CHRIST, NOT EVEN A CHURCH).
1997 Leaders unanimously approve Phipps after both
these articles were published in the newspapers.
The Manual
26th Revised Edition 1987
Introduction:
Ever since 1925 "The Manual" has been an important and
indispensable tool for members and organized bodies of the
United Church of Canada.
The Basis of Union
As prepared by the joint committee of The Presbyterian
Church in Canada, The Methodist Church, and the Congregational
Churches of Canada, and approved by the Supreme Courts of
these Churches, as amended by the United Church of Canada
GENERAL
1.1 The name of the Church formed by the union of the Presbyterian,
Methodist, and Congregational Churches in Canada, shall
be "The United Church of Canada."
1.2 It shall be the policy of the United Church to foster
the spirit of unity in the hope that this sentiment of unity
may in due time, so far as Canada is concerned, take shape
in a Church which may fittingly be described as national.
DOCTRINE
2.0 We, the representatives of the Presbyterian, Methodist,
and Congregational branches of the Church of Christ in Canada,
do hereby set forth the substance of the Christian faith,
as commonly held among us. In doing so, we build upon the
foundation laid by the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ
Himself being the chief cornerstone. We affirm our belief
in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments as the primary
source and ultimate standard of Christian faith and life.
We acknowledge the teaching of the great creeds of the ancient
Church. We further maintain our allegiance to the evangelical
doctrines of the Reformation, as set forth in common in
the doctrinal standards adopted by the Presbyterian Church
in Canada, by the Congregational Union of Ontario and Quebec,
and by the Methodist Church. We present the accompanying
statement as a brief summary of our common faith and commend
it to the studious attention of the members and adherents
of the negotiating Churches, as in substance agreeable to
the teaching of the Holy Scriptures.
2.1 Article I. Of God.
We believe in the one only living and true God, a Spirit,
infinite, eternal and unchangeable, in His being and perfections;
the Lord Almighty, who is love, most just in all His ways,
most glorious in holiness, unsearchable in wisdom, plenteous
in mercy, full of compassion, and abundant in goodness and
truth. We worship Him in the unity of the Godhead and the
mystery of the Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son and the
Holy Spirit, three persons of the same substance, equal
in power and glory.
2.2 Article II. Of Revelation.
We believe that God has revealed Himself in nature, in
history, and in the heart of man; that He has been graciously
pleased to make clearer revelation of Himself to men of
God who spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit; and
that in the fullness of time He has perfectly revealed Himself
in Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh, who is the brightness
of the Father's glory and the express image of His person.
We receive the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments,
given by inspiration of God, as containing the only infallible
rule of faith and life, a faithful record of God's gracious
revelations, and as the sure witness of Christ.
2.3 Article III. Of the Divine Purpose.
We believe that the eternal, wise, holy and loving purpose
of God so embraces all events that, while the freedom of
man is not taken away, nor is God the author of sin, yet
in His providence He makes all things work together in the
fulfilment of His sovereign design and the manifestation
of His glory.
2.4 Article IV. Of Creation and
Providence.
We believe that God is the creator, upholder and governor
of all things; that He is above all His works and in them
all; and that He made man in His own image, meet for fellowship
with Him, free and able to choose between good and evil
and responsible to his Maker and Lord.
2.5 Article V. Of the Sin of Man.
We believe that our first parents, being tempted, chose
evil, and so fell away from God and came under the power
of sin, the penalty of which is eternal death; and that,
by reason of this disobedience, all men are born with a
sinful nature, that we have broken God's law and that no
man can be saved but by His grace.
2.6 Article VI. Of the Grace of
God.
We believe that God, out of His great love for the world,
has given His only begotten Son to be the Saviour of sinners,
and in the Gospel freely offers His all-sufficient salvation
to all men. We believe also that God, in His own good pleasure,
gave to his son a people, an innumerable multitude, chosen
in Christ unto holiness, service and salvation.
2.7 Article VII. Of the Lord Jesus
Christ.
We believe in and confess the Lord Jesus Christ, the only
Mediator between God and man, who, being the Eternal Son
of God, for us men and for our salvation became truly man,
being conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin
Mary, yet without sin. Unto us He has revealed the Father,
by His word and Spirit, making known the perfect will of
God. For our redemption, He fulfilled all righteousness,
offered Himself a perfect sacrifice on the Cross, satisfied
Divine justice and made propitiation for the sins of the
whole world. He rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven,
where He ever intercedes for us. In the hearts of believers
He abides forever as the indwelling Christ; above us and
over us all He rules; wherefore, unto Him we render love,
obedience and adoration as our Prophet, Priest and King.
2.8 Article VIII. Of the Holy Spirit.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who moves upon
the hearts of men to restrain them from evil and to incite
them unto good, and whom the Father is ever willing to give
unto all who ask Him. We believe that He has spoken by holy
men of God in making known His truth to men for their salvation;
that, through our exalted Saviour, He was sent forth in
power to convict the world of sin, to enlighten men's minds
in the knowledge of Christ, and to persuade and enable them
to obey the call of the Gospel; and that He abides with
the Church, dwelling in every believer as the spirit of
truth, of power, of holiness, of comfort and of love.
2.9 Article IX. Of Regeneration.
We believe in the necessity of regeneration, whereby we
are made new creatures in Christ Jesus by the Spirit of
God, who imparts spiritual life by the gracious and mysterious
operation of His power, using as the ordinary means the
truths of His word and the ordinances of divine appointment
in ways agreeable to the nature of man.
2.10 Article X. Of Faith and Repentance.
We believe that faith in Christ is a saving grace whereby
we receive Him, trust in Him and rest upon Him alone for
salvation as He is offered to us in the Gospel, and that
this saving faith is always accompanied by repentance, wherein
we confess and forsake our sins with full purpose of and
endeavor after a new obedience to God.
2.11 Article XI. Of Justification
and Sonship.
We believe that God, on the sole ground of the perfect
obedience and sacrifice of Christ, pardons those who by
faith receive Him as their Saviour and Lord, accepts them
as righteous and bestows upon them the adoption of sons,
with a right to all privileges therein implied, including
a conscious assurance of their sonship.
2.12 Article XII. Of Sanctification.
We believe that those who are regenerated and justified
grow in the likeness of Christ through fellowship with Him,
the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and obedience to the
truth; that a holy life is the fruit and evidence of saving
faith; and that the believer's hope of continuance in such
a life is in the preserving grace of God. And we believe
that in this growth in grace Christians may attain that
maturity and full assurance of faith whereby the love of
God is made perfect in us.
2.13 Article XIII. Of Prayer.
We believe that we are encouraged to draw near to God,
our Heavenly Father, in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ,
and on our own behalf and that of others to pour out our
hearts humbly yet freely before Him, as becomes His beloved
children, giving Him the honour and praise due His holy
name, asking Him to glorify Himself on earth as in Heaven,
confessing unto Him our sins and seeking of Him every gift
needful for this life and for our everlasting salvation.
We believe also that, inasmuch as all true prayer is prompted
by His Spirit, He will in response thereto grant us every
blessing according to His unsearchable wisdom and the riches
of His grace in Jesus Christ.
2.14 Article XIV. Of the Law of
God.
We believe that the moral law of God, summarized in the
Ten Commandments, testified to by the prophets and unfolded
in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, stands for ever
in truth and equity, and is not made void by faith, but
on the contrary is established thereby. We believe that
God requires of every man to do justly, to love mercy, and
to walk humbly with God; and that only through this harmony
with the will of God shall be fulfilled that brotherhood
of man wherein the Kingdom of God is to be made manifest.
2.15 Article XV. Of the Church.
We acknowledge one holy Catholic Church, the innumerable
company of saints of every age and nation, who being united
by the Holy Spirit to Christ their Head are one body in
Him and have communion with their Lord and with one another.
Further, we receive it as the will of Christ, that His Church
on earth should exist as a visible and sacred brotherhood,
consisting of those who profess faith in Jesus Christ and
obedience to Him, together with their children, and other
baptized children, and organized for the confession of His
name, for the public worship of God, for the administration
of the sacraments, for the upbuilding of the saints, and
for the universal propagation of the Gospel; and we acknowledge
as a part, more or less pure, of this universal brotherhood,
every particular Church throughout the world which professes
this faith in Jesus Christ and obedience to Him as divine
Lord and Saviour.
2.16 Article XVI. Of the Sacraments.
We acknowledge two sacraments, Baptism and the Lord's Supper,
which were instituted by Christ, to be of perpetual obligation
as signs and seals of the covenant ratified in His precious
blood, as a means of grace, by which, working in us, He
doth not only quicken, but also strengthen and comfort our
faith in Him, and as ordinances through the observance of
which His Church is to confess her Lord and be visibly distinguished
from the rest of the world.
2.16.1 baptism
Baptism with water into the name of the Father and of the
Son and of the Holy Spirit is the sacrament by which are
signified and sealed our union to Christ and participation
in the blessings of the new covenant. The proper subjects
of baptism are believers and infants presented by their
parents or guardians in the Christian faith. In the latter
case the parents or guardians should train up their children
in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and should expect
that their children will, by the operation of the Holy Spirit,
receive the benefits which the sacrament is designed and
fitted to convey. The Church is under the most solemn obligation
to provide for their Christian instruction.
2.16.2 Lord's supper
The Lord's Supper is the sacrament of communion with Christ
and with His people, in which bread and wine are given and
received in thankful remembrance of Him and His sacrifice
on the Cross; and they who in faith receive the same do,
after a spiritual manner, partake of the body and blood
of the Lord Jesus Christ to their comfort, nourishment and
growth in grace. All may be admitted to the Lord's supper
who make a credible profession of their faith in the Lord
Jesus and of obedience to His law.
2.17 Article XVII. Of the Ministry.
We believe that Jesus Christ, as the Supreme Head of the
Church, has appointed therein an Ordained Ministry of Word,
Sacrament and Pastoral Care and a Diaconal Ministry of Education,
Service and Pastoral Care and calls men and women to these
ministries; that the Church, under the guidance of the Holy
Spirit, recognizes and chooses those whom He calls, and
should thereupon duly ordain or commission them to the work
of the ministry.
2.18 Article XVIII. Of Church Order
and Fellowship.
We believe that the Supreme and only Head of the Church
is the Lord Jesus Christ; that its worship, teaching, discipline
and government should be administered according to His will
by persons chosen for their fitness and fully set apart
to their office; and that although the visible Church may
contain unworthy members and is liable to err, yet believers
ought not lightly to separate themselves from its communion,
but are to live in fellowship with their brethren, which
fellowship is to be extended, as God gives opportunity,
to all who in every place call upon the name of the Lord
Jesus.
2.19 Article XIX. Of the Resurrection,
the Last Judgment and the Future Life.
We believe that there shall be a resurrection of the dead,
both of the just and of the unjust, through the power of
the Son of God, who shall come to judge the living and the
dead; that the finally impenitent shall go away into eternal
punishment and the righteous into life eternal.
2.20 Article XX. Of Christian Service
And The Final Triumph.
We believe that it is our duty as disciples and servants
of Christ, to further the extension of His Kingdom, to do
good unto all men, to maintain the public and private worship
of God, to hallow the Lord's Day, to preserve the inviolability
of marriage and the sanctity of the family, to uphold the
just authority of the State, and so to live in all honesty,
purity and charity, that our lives shall testify of Christ.
We joyfully receive the word of Christ, bidding His people
go into all the world and make disciples of all nations,
declaring unto them that God was in Christ reconciling the
world unto Himself, and that He will have all men to be
saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. We confidently
believe that by His power and grace all His enemies shall
finally be overcome, and the kingdoms of this world be made
the Kingdom of our God and of His Christ.
Jesus
divinity doubted
Church leader holds controversial
views
By BOB HARVEY Southam Newspapers
"The Ottawa Citizen" October 30, 1997
The divinity of Jesus and the reality
of heaven and hell are irrelevant, says the new moderator
of the United Church of Canada.
What really matters, says Right Rev.
Bill Phipps, is mending a broken world.
In a free-wheeling debate with the
editorial board of the Ottawa Citizen, Phipps said Jesus
was more interested in life on Earth than the afterlife
and had more to say about economics than any other subject.
"I don't believe Jesus was God, but I'm no theologian,"
Phipps said.
His lapel button, Phipps reading
"Zero Poverty," reflects the views he developed in the mid
1960s as a student observing riots and civil-rights marches
in New York and Chicago. "Biblically, it's an abomination
that there are any poor people in Canada at all."
As a minister in Toronto, and most
recently in Calgary, he has been quick to demonstrate against
everything from nuclear arms to what he sees as the cultural
genocide of Canada's aboriginal people.
Phipps, 55, was elected head of Canada's
largest Protestant denomination in August. He believes what
appealed most to the 400 delegates was his platform: putting
the Unite Church's views front and centre in public policy
debates.
His views on poverty are strong an
definite. "Your soul is lost unless you care about people
starving in the streets."
Canada's major churches can no longer
be called mainline churches, Phipps said, because they now
have relatively little influence.
But he believes Canadians are increasingly
conscious of a moral void kind the church can contribute
much to debates about world trade, employment, and the diminishing
emphasis on health care and social services.
His views on the afterlife tend more
to the agnostic. "I have no idea if there is a hell," he
said. "I don't think Jesus was that concerned about hell.
He was concerned about life here on earth."
Is heaven a place? I have no idea.
I believe that there is a continuity of the spirit in some
way, but I would be a fool to say what that is."
We've got enough problems trying
to live ethically and well here to have any knowledge or
understanding of what happens after we die."
Phipps said Jesus is central to his
beliefs and motivates his compassion for others, but he
doesn't accept the Bible as a valid historical record.
Nor does he accept the traditional
Christian concept of Jesus as the Son of God.
"I don't believe Jesus is the only
way to God," he said. "I don't believe He rose from the
dead as a scientific fact. I don't know whether those things
happened. It's an irrelevant question."
However, Phipps said he does believe
in Jesus. "The bald statement that Jesus is not divine gives
the wrong impression. I believe that Christ reveals to us
as much of the nature of God as we can see in a human being,"
he said."
The whole concept of the nature of
God is broader and wider and more mysterious and more holy
than could be expressed in Jesus."
That doesn't mean that Jesus is the
totality of God."
Phipps said the defining mark of
evangelical Christianitya personal relationship with Jesusdoes
not ensure ethical conduct. South Africa's regime of apartheid
was unbiblical and obscene, but "it was put in place with
all the Christian rhetoric by Christian individuals who
loved Jesus."
It is not enough to go to church,
pray and live an upright personal life. "Some of the great
giants of Canadian commerce were upstanding, moral people
in church. But they paid low wages and opposed unions. Or
they had no compunction about making armaments for Third
World countries and getting them deeply in debt," he said.
Phipps also acknowledged that the
United Church of Canada continues to lose members, and cited
its 1988 decision to ordain homos¥xuals as a reason
why many people have left.
Article
#2: Hamilton Spectator, Nov 27, 1997, Page A2
A church leaderÉs view of
Jesus, life
The national executive of the United
Church of Canada has supported its moderator, Rev. Bill
Phipps, whose comments have upset many church members. What
exactly did he say? Here are excerpts from a transcript
of his controversial comments.
Rev. Phipps (in introductory or.
Phipps (in introductory marks to a meeting with the editorial
board of the Ottawa Citizen): People are yearning for a
strong moral voice again in public policy I think people
sense that we've lost our moral centre, that society has
lost its moral centre.
The United Church, over its 72 year
history, has been one of the fairly strong moral voices,
or strong social conscience, for Canada, and it has contributed
a great deal over the years to the development of the Canada
we once knew ...
But over the past 15 years, a lot
of that, for a whole variety of reasons, has really diminished.
We, along with a lot of the other churches, have gone from
being mainline in terms of part of the moral centre to sideline.
No one really cares or no one is really aware of what the
church says.
Q: How do we recover the moral centre?
Political activism, that sort of thing?
Phipps: My evidence for where I think
it's gone are things like language. I have now been transformed
from a student to a consumer of education, a consumer of
health care, a consumer of social services. Our language
over the past 10 or 15 years has almost been single-mindedly
changed into a market-economy language.
I think the only value of, the primary
value that we seem to have adopted in the past 10 or 15
years, is the market. Let the market decide. The market,
the bottom line, profit and loss, winners and losers, have
been the language of not only economic debate but all the
other debates that go on.
If you express concerns about poverty
and start using language that expresses compassion and solidarity
with victims of social policy and so on, you're more accused
now of being either wishy-washy or a bleeding heart or you
don't understand the realities of the world, you don't understand
that we are in a global death struggle with global competition
and so on ...
So it's not just political activism,
it's where the conversations take place that have to do
with the development of social policy ...
Jesus talks about economics more
than he talks about anything else. But what happens in experience
is that moral questions get reduced to: I don't beat my
kids, I get along with the public, the PTA, I don't have
s¥x out of marriage and blah-blah-blah ... Some of the
giants of Canadian commerce were Methodists who were absolutely
moral, upstanding people in their churches but paid low
wages to their workers and adamantly opposed unions.
Q: You haven't mentioned Jesus. Now,
the Promise Keepers said that the critical thing is not
whether you beat your dog or have extramarital s¥x;
the critical thing, the foundation of everything, the centre
of how you work is your relationship with Jesus, and it
seems to me that a person who had a proper relationship
with Jesus, who had opened his heart to believe in Jesus,
would not engage in actions that harmed other people near
or far.
Phipps: The experience has been otherwise
... One of the worst regimes outside of the Nazi regime
of this century has been the apartheid regime in South Africa
which was justified on biblical grounds by high-minded Christians
... it was put in place with all the Christian rhetoric
by Christian individuals who love Jesus.
Q: Nevertheless, should the United
Church parishioners not have a true relationship with Jesus?
Phipps: I think that goes on in every
one of our 4,000 congregations every Sunday I know it goes
on where I'm the preacher and where I lead prayer ... In
fact I think, in many respects, another thing that's happened
as we've kind of withdrawn a bit from the public world,
the United Church has recovered a great deal of its Biblical
study and spirituality and its personal understanding of
the faith, personal relationships with God and so on...
So I think the United Church and
other churches as well are doing a much better job than
we ever did of that personal thing, and what I'm saying
is we've never forgotten the focus, but we've got to be
far more active and alive and let people know what we think
about certain issues.
Q: Unless you believe in Jesus, you
will not be saved. Do you believe that?
Phipps: That Jesus is the only way
to God?
Q: Yes.
Phipps: No, I do not believe that.
Q: Do you believe that Jesus rose
from the dead?
Phipps: I believe Jesus lives in
people's hearts and did from the moment of that Easter experience.
Q: But did he die, spend three days
dead and rise from the dead and walk the Earth?
Phipps: No, I don't believe that
in terms of the scientific fact. I don't know whether those
things happened or not. Actually, I'm far more open to strange
things happening and all that kind of thing than I used
to be. I think it's an irrelevant question.
Q: So if Christ be not risen, our
faith is in vain.
Phipps: No. No, no. Christ risen
in people's hearts is extremely important. Something extraordinary
happened that hadn't happened before in biblical records
of resurrection to those people after they experienced Jesus
alive. Obviously something absolutely stupendous happened
to turn a bunch of cowards into people who are willing to
lay down their own life. But-I wasn't there. But I'm the
recipient to people who had a passion that Jesus was alive
and well and not only in my heart but cruising around the
world, trying to mend a broken world ...
Q: But the gospel is reported as
literally being fact.
Phipps: Well, the gospels were written
by people with a theological axe to grind and an agenda
and fine, that's what they are. But they weren't historical
records of anything.
Q: Do you believe that Jesus is divine,
that he was the son of God?
Phipps: We could have a whole discussion
about that.
Q: Well, I would think the head of
a Christian church would have a clearly defined position
on the issue. You have a clearly defined position on this
world, but I'm asking about theology What interests me about
theology ... an after life is more important to me than
a soup kitchen.
Phipps: It wasn't to Jesus and it
wasn't to people of the Bible ... Your soul is directly
tied (to) whether you care about people who are starving
in the streets. Your soul is lost unless you care about
that In a country as wealthy as Canada ... there is absolutely
no excuse, speaking as a Christian, for there to be any
soup kitchens, anybody living in the streets of Calgary
any shelters for the homeless ...
Q: "The poor you will always have
with you." That seems ...
Phipps: No, unless you read the rest
of that passage in Deuteronomy People just like to lift
it out and say there it is, Jesus said it. Read the whole
Deuteronomy passage. If you have a Bible, we'll read it.
Soul has to do with those very practical social justice
issues. It always has in scripture and it certainly did
with Jesus. That's why I said Jesus talked a lot more about
economics than he did about anything else.
Q: In this argument, morality has
become quite situational and is subject to fashion, and
I'm wondering how you respond to that.
Phipps: Well, I think that's absolutely
true, but those are two different things. "Subject
to fashion" I think is absolutely right. What is the morality
of the day? But you'd have to be more specific about that.
Morality and ethics always has to relate to the situation
in which you're in. I'm one of those people who's very wary
about people who write down a bunch of rules and say that
is going to pertain forever and ever. You look at some of
morality and there's no way we'd follow those examples now.
The main example is slavery and women. Those were just accepted
parts of the social structure. It was not immoral to treat
women as property Well, it certainly is immoral to do that
now.
Q: Then what is the moral centre?
If it's situational, then certainly there's no centre.
Phipps: The centre is in biblical
terms, our concepts or words or experiences as compassion,
justice, peace. The Jewish term "shalom" encompasses a whole
lot of things. Peace with justice. There is no peace where,
there is no justice. It's how you apply that in a given
situation ... That's what God is concerned about. How we
treat each other. What our relationships are like. Are they
relationships of loving justice or, too often, you know,
we cover up lack of love with elaborate social paraphernalia...
I believe that Christ reveals to
us as much of the nature of God as we can see in a human
being. Now that has some presuppositions to it, the major
one of which is that life and death and God, the Divine
and the Holy and all that, is a tremendous mystery of which
anyone sees only a very small part. There is all kinds of
stuff to discover that we don't know about. But as far as
we are able to understand, Christ is that person who reveals
to us the most about the nature of God, what God wants of
us, who God is, of any human being.
Q: So was Christ God?
Phipps: No, I don't believe Christ
was God.
Q; He's not part of the Trinity He's
not the son of God.
Phipps: I think that's ... I'm no
theologian.
Q: You're head of a Christian church,
you have to be.
Phipps: No, I don't have to. I'm
no theologian, but the beauty of the Trinity to me is that
it recognizes various dimensions to the Christian understanding
of God. If Jesus was God, there'd be no need for God in
the Trinity.
Q: I guess what I'm trying to get
at is, is there any truth that the United Church, or Bill
Phipps, agrees with? Is there any truth that we can say:
"You believe in this. This is what the United Church says,
this is what the moderator says, whatever..."
Phipps: The fundamental truth to
me in the biblical story is that God loves us and the world
unconditionally, and part of that unconditional love is,
for Christians, it was that unconditional love was poured
into the person of Jesus. The whole biblical story is one
of God's unconditional love. Taking people who betrayed
God, who said no to God, who were unjust and converting
them and turning them around. Moses would be one example.
That's a huge truth as far as I'm concerned, because a lot
of people want to have a conditional love of God. Part of
the whole implication, to me, of the truth of God's unconditional
love for the world is the freedom to try and bring justice
and fail. The ethical outgrowth of God's unconditional love
is just relationships in the Earth among human communities.
If God loves me and everybody unconditionally, it means
I can try to act justly, I can be vigorous in my engagement
with the world, and fail. And God will love me. That's a
pretty strong statement.
Q: Is there a heaven?
Phipps: Is there a heaven, a place?
I have no idea. I believe there is.
Q: Do we all join with God in the
afterlife regardless of our conduct? Does anyone get shut
out? Some people get the gate in the face?
Phipps: I have no idea. But I just
want to say something about unconditional love, seeing God
as a loving parent. Anyone who has children knows what it
is to love your child unconditionally and have heartache
about your child. But we know - that's what unconditional
love is. The story of the prodigal son is one of the great
stories about that and there are other stories and many
religious traditions.
Q: What's the worst thing that could
happen to me when I die?
Phipps: The worst thing that could
happen to you is that your worst fears of Dante's Inferno
are actually true, that's the worst thing that could happen
to you.
Q: So there actually is a hell? And
it's very bad?
Phipps: I have no idea. And I don't
think Jesus was that concerned about hell. I think we're
concerned about life here. And the Jewish tradition wasn't
that concerned about hell either. They were concerned about
just relationships here. I've got enough problems, and I
think most of us have enough problems, trying to live an
ethical life knowing all of the ways we compromise ourselves
and all of the frailties that we've got. We've got enough
problems trying to live ethically and well here to have
any knowledge or understanding or worry about what happens
after I die. I believe there is a continuation of the spirit
in some form or another, but I'd be a fool to say I know
what that is or what it's going to be like.
End articles.
Postscript: Leaders unanimously
approve Phipps after both these articles were published
in the newspapers.